Rethinking Assumptions About Group Therapy

At this stage of the course, you should have a better understanding of how group therapy works, why it works, and what makes for an effective therapy group. To be an effective group therapy leader, you need to understand the complexities of group therapy and have the vision to see how you want your group to progress. As the therapy group’s leader, it is important to be present in your group, but also to be one step ahead.

For this Assignment, review this week’s media titled “Understanding Group Psychotherapy – Outpatients (parts 1 and 2).”  Consider how the video confirms or disconfirms your assumptions. In addition, think about how you might modify your assumptions based on what you saw in the video. Finally, consider what insights you had or conclusions you drew about group therapy.

The Assignment (4 pagesONLY…DOES NOT INCLUDE TITLE AND REFERENCES)

• Based upon the film, create a descriptive narrative explaining how the video confirms or disconfirms your assumptions about group therapy
• Explain any changes you might make to your assumptions about group therapy based on the video
• Explain any insights you had or conclusions you drew based on your review of the video

** STAY ON TOPIC**

PART 1 TRANSCRIPT

 

Betty I was trying to please everybody. I was pleasing my daughter . I was pleasing my mother . I was pleasing my boss and, you know, I was forgetting to please myself. I was forgetting all about me. So, you know, one of the things that I have to do is build myself up and try to find out who I am again.

Irv Yalom You know, I’m aware that we’re kinda getting to the end of the meeting and it’s, it’s the sort of meeting uhm, I feel real good about. I think it’s been a good first meeting. Ah, I’ve been aware that a lot of you took a lot of risks; a lot of people very honest during the meeting today. But I also have a sense that there has been another, sort of, whole layer of experience that each of you have been having that you have yet to talk about, you know, and that is, everybody is coming to this room with a group of strangers you have never seen before and ah, of course, you met Joan and me but you haven’t met the others. So, and I think you have all been, perhaps, at some level or another making some judgments of one another, kind of sizing up the other people in the group. Uhm, so I wonder if we can spend some time uhm, you know, talking about and now, what you’ve come up with so far.

Dan Uhm, judgments I don’t under. Do you mean? I don’t understand what you mean by judgments.

Irv Yalom Well, you know, I think we’ve gotten first impressions of people. We look around here, we sort of wonder, well, who, who ah, who are we gonna be most like? Who are going to be most unlike? Who’s it gonna be easiest for us to relate to? Who’s gonna be more difficult for us to relate to? Ah, who we gonna feel liked by? It, it’s that sort of thing. Ah, you know, could we spend some time talking about the feelings, impressions that you all have been having of one another right here in this room?

Joan Darlene, I noticed you nodding your head ah, when Irv talked about sizing people up in the group.

Darlene Well, I was thinking about when I came here and I was in the waiting room. I thought, who looks the craziest? I mean. I thought, I was gonna be with a bunch of crazies, you know. But, really, none of you seem like crazy to me; you don’t seem crazy. But I still feel like I’m ashamed to have to need to be in a group like this. I mean, I still think it, it’s a sign of weakness to be here.

Allen No, no, no maybe it’s a sign of strength. All those guys out there probably need a group, but probably are too afraid to say it.

Cathy Or they don’t have a sense to know it. I’m proud of myself for taking this step and I feel really good about this group.

Dan Yeah, I feel good about it too. I’m glad I did it. I, I expect I’ll, I’ll get a lot from it. I hope so. I hope I will.

Allen Yeah.

Irv Yalom You know, I’d like, I’d like, if we could to go back still to that question of impression to people have, the feelings that people have right here, from what they’ve seen of one another in the, in this, in this meeting. Anybody have any thoughts about that?

Betty Well, I’m a little worried about Alice because she’s so quiet. You just sit there and you don’t have very much to say this afternoon.

Alice Yeah, it, it takes me a long time to get comfortable in this kind of group. It just seems so intense here, you know, like every word is being studied. I’m just afraid of what others will think about me.

Bob Well, uhm, I, I saw you smiling earlier, Alice. I, I thought that you were judging me.

Allen [laughing] Being judgmental? I didn’t get that. I just felt she didn’t want to be put on the spot.

Joan Allen, I noticed that you ah, attempted to take the focus off of Alice during the introductory round. You seemed to be very sensitive to her discomfort.

Bob Oh, I disagree with that. I don’t believe that he was being sensitive to her. I think, she, he should have given her the full time to, to say what she had to say. I think, Allen may have actually just wanted more time for himself.

Allen Uh hmm.

Irv Yalom How, how do you feel about that, Alice? Let’s check that out.

Alice Well, it, it’s not true. I, I don’t want the spotlight. You know, I’m very shy and uhm, in fact when I go to parties I make it a point to come in late so that I could help the hostess clean up the glasses.

Joan How was it for you today in group, Alice? No glasses to clean here.

Alice Huh, well I, actually, I thought about bringing some coffeecake at the next meeting.

Darlene [laughing] And maybe some glasses?

Irv Yalom Tell us some more about your experience, though, Alice.

Alice Well, I feel like I’m looking into a window from the outside, you know, looking at the group and not being in it.

Irv Yalom That, that feeling of sort of being out of a group, kind of looking into it, is that, is that a familiar place for you? You’ve been there before?

Alice Yes, like I said I’ve, I’ve washed a lot of glasses and ah, I’ve never felt like I belonged in any group, you know. It’s always been like I’ve been outside looking in.

Joan Alice, is that something you wanna change in the group, something you wanna work on?

Alice Yeah, yes ah, but, but not today.

Darlene I was a little concerned about, about Cathy and how quiet you were, you’ve been, today.

Cathy Well, I don’t want to offend anyone but I have to be truthful. I was a little bit put out by the men in the group, especially you two guys.

Irv Yalom Which? Which two?

Cathy Uhm, Bob and Allen. Always being so competitive with one another.

Darlene I know what you mean. I mean, it’s like you guys are trying to be top dog or something.

Bob Oh, I don’t know where you’re coming from that Darlene. It is Darlene? I, I, I, I used to be challenging. I used to be challenging. I’m not that way now. In fact, before the meeting, I spoke with Irv and Joan, and, and they told me that I would, I would be probably getting a lot of support from this group. And I was shocked because I, I’m used to struggle, not, not support. So that made me realized that point, that I am, I’m much more used to struggle. But I’m not, not now. I don’t feel the struggle today. Besides, I, I think I’m just asking questions that need to be asked.

Darlene Well, I don’t know about anybody else, but I feel competition in here. I don’t feel safe.

Irv Yalom Bob, what do you feel about the feedback you’re getting from, from Darlene and from Cathy?

Bob Like I say, I, honest, ah, I, I’m not, I just don’t feel as though I’m challenging today. I don’t feel that in this group. Uhm, will you make that point, Cathy. Uhm, what, what do you mean? Give me an example.

Cathy Well, I don’t feel so safe right now.

Betty Well, I could give you an example. Earlier on in this session when uhm, Joan commented that Allen was sensitive to Alice’s needs because he took the focus off her well, you jumped right in there and said you didn’t agree, and he was wrong, and that he should have given her more time.

Bob No, I think you’re taking that, taking that wrong. I, I really believe that Alice should have had a lot more time to work through her problem. I’d, I really don’t think Allen should have jumped in the way he did but, uhm.

Allen Well, well, Cathy, you, you mentioned me into this competitiveness. Ah, it’s, it’s not that I am questioning you ah, it’s, I want some feedback. I, I, I don’t feel that way.

Cathy Oh, I don’t know, it’s just your demeanor. You always have to have the last word.

Betty And in the beginning when we all told why we were coming uhm, your reasons for being here were very vague. You know, as if, well you had had a problem before, but now you were fine.

Darlene Yeah, you know, you were talking about how you used to be in therapy about ten years ago, with Irv?

Allen Yeah.

Darlene Well, well I thought that was good. I mean, it helped ’cause we were all nervous and, and then you said that it was helpful. But then, then you kept saying it over and over and over and, you know. (crosstalk)

Allen Okay. (crosstalk)

Darlene What you’re trying to prove like you and Irv were big buddies or something, and you were a big pro at this?

Allen Okay, okay I hear it.

Irv Yalom Yeah, we, we really have to stop today. I think we, I think we done ah, a lot of work today in, in the group. Before we stop, let me just check in real briefly with, with you. How do you all feel about this meeting? What’s it been like for each of you? I’m, I’m particularly curious about what the, what the last ten minutes has been like, say, in contrast with the earlier part of the meeting?

Darlene I thought there was a lot of energy.

Irv Yalom About when did that?

Darlene Well, like, the last ten minutes.

Betty Uh hmm. Well, I think during the last ten minutes we’ve really all opened up a whole lot more than in the beginning, you know.

Cathy It’s very difficult to ah, relate to people so openly and honestly. That was very hard to do.

Irwin New. It’s a new experience. (crosstalk)

Cathy Uh hmm, very new.

Dan I, I found it very interesting, very interesting today. Ah, I think I learned quite a lot.

Darlene Well, I still think that there was some competition going on, and I think that some people were put on the spot.

Irv Yalom Like, like who?

Darlene More Alice.

Irv Yalom Anybody else?

Darlene Well, me.

Betty Now, I think, we also put Allen and Bob on the spot, though.

Irv Yalom How, how do you feel about that? Do you think there was any ah, any danger in that today?

Betty Well, I, I certainly hope not, but I, I think they both took it very well. I think, they listened and were open to what we were saying to them.

Irv Yalom Can we check that out, with the two of you? What the meeting was like for, for you two?

Bob I feel fine with it.

Betty You gonna come back?

Allen I’ll be back.

Bob Certainly.

Irv Yalom You know, I’m aware that, that one of the things that, that we did, too, in the meeting is, even though we, you know, offered the ah, offered the opportunity for people to speak, one of the things that we did also, and I think we are to continue to do, is sort of let people have the ah, right, in a sense, to say, well that’s enough for today. You know, that they’ll had enough ’cause I think that happened earlier with you, Alice. You said, “yeah, I wanna work on this, but that’s enough for today,” and I think, and I saw the group honor that, so I thought that was great. Okay, gonna stop. See you all next week.

Betty Thank you.

Okay.

COMMENTARY

Irv Yalom Now, let’s go back and take a look at what happened ah, in this segment ah, of the group. Before ah, the first ah, 60 or 70 minutes of the group, at the time that we tuned into it ah, the group have been having ah, a fairly standard ah, initial session. And what happens in initial session, what happened in this group, was that ah, people talked about why they’d come for therapy, talked about some of the major problems they have been having in life. Ah, some of them talked about ah, other therapy that they had had or other groups they had been into. Ah, a couple of people talked about how awkward it was to talk in front of a group. And then about that time, I made a, a major intervention. And in effect, I asked them to, ah, let’s begin to take a look at how we feel towards one another in the here-and-now of this group. Uhm, that was a, ah, significant step in the group and it had been the first time of, it, it was the first time of many times, that I’ll begin to try to escort the group explicitly into the here-and-now. Uhm, that was a rather difficult thing for the members to ah, to accomplish. It’s, it’s, we don’t ordinarily talk in typical social interaction about our feelings towards one another. And you notice, the group did not do this ah, very willingly. First of all, there was ah, some resistance and that someone said ah, that they didn’t quite understand what I meant, could I repeat it, although I thought my instructions were, you know, quite clear. So I repeated it. And then after that, the group soon ah, and began to be engaged in the discussion of being proud to be in this group, and the fact that ah, it was a good thing to be in this group, and that perhaps people who weren’t in groups outside should be in groups. Well, ordinarily that’s, you know, that’s good material. It’s material ah, anything that helps people be proud of the group they’re in increases the cohesion of that group, makes the group work better. But in this instance, what was happening was there’s still resistance. So I say it a third time. And then, at this point ah, the members then begin to take a look at what’s happening in the group. The first interpersonal comment that was made was to begin to talk about Alice. And that, again, is not unusual about the, the phenomena in group. As the members begin to close rank, they want to include all the outliers in the group. So people then talked about Alice’s silence. Alice began to talk about what it was like for her ah, ordinarily in her life to be outside of groups looking in. In fact, this discussion of being outside, or being inside, is again a common phenomenon early in groups. Some people try to ah, measure, quantify certain kinds of group stages, and that’s always the first group stage, the idea of being in or out. Ah, later on, this group will go into a common second stage which is a question of being top or bottom, where the conflict between members becomes evident. In fact, that’s the very next thing that happens in, in this group. And the women then begin to talk about the, the amount of competition that is ah, present then, between, between Bob and Allen. Ah, and they talk about in a way that ah, I think is important, because they’re saying that this makes them feel unsafe ah, in this group. And it’s important for them, thus, to start to do some work about the conditions of making people feel unsafe to them. So, I thought that was really excellent work. Now, you notice that Bob or Allen didn’t do a lot of work with the feedback they had gotten. This was not a, a stage in the group, it’s so early, it’s the first meeting, we expect people to really make some changes or even to hear it too clearly. But what we’re primarily interested in is simply ah, introducing the concept that there was a lot of competition going on between ah, between the men and the women. Notice that ah, that Bob says, well, he didn’t think he was doing that, or that he used to be like this; he wasn’t doing it anymore. Notice that ah, Allen, in a sense, was asking for feedback, possibly in an attempt to show the group that he was doing it better than Bob was; the whole idea of the two of them competing for women in the group. None of these things, I think, was, was a timely to go into and talk to, but simply identifying the issue, letting the group members know yes, we can talk about ah, at these issues. Uhm, another point I wanna make was to, to call your attention to the very last couple of minutes of the group. We’re just about to end and then I asked the group members, let’s take a look at what we’ve been doing in this meeting, especially over the last 10 minutes. And that’s something I think is always an important part of the here-and-now. I’m gonna explicate, I’m sure in the future segments, about the fact that the here-and-now, really, if it’s to be therapeutic, should consist of two separate steps: You know, one of them being the plunging into the here-and-now, expressing feelings towards one another, letting others matter towards each other. But also the second step of beginning to take a look at what’s just happened. It’s a sort of self-transcendent loop, where we then go back and study what it is that’s happened in the here-and-now, and that’s what I was beginning to introduce that group to here. Another thing that was going on is that we were build, busy in this meeting, sort of building group norms. We were beginning norms as ah, just ah, a fancy word for unwritten rules of behavior. We’re beginning to set certain rules of behavior in this group, and you can see what we’ve done. We’ve talked about ah, norms of support. We try to be encouraging towards members, of making this group safe, of helping members interact towards one another. But one thing that I was doing, just in this, in this last couple of minutes, was also the important norm of helping the groups be ah, more autonomous. In other words, helping the groups take responsibility for their own functioning. Ah, if you lead a group, at the end of every meeting you’re so fatigue you can barely move, you know, you come home, you’re tired, you feel like you’ve got to do all the work, it means the group is really playing little role in their, in their own conduct of the meeting. So that it’s important for the therapist to help the members take charge of running the meeting. But there is an important problem in that, in that the members, in the very beginning of the group, don’t know what a good meeting ah, is consist of. Only the therapist really knows that. So you’ve got to be able to help the group members develop a definition of what it is that makes a good group therapy meeting. And that’s one of the things that I was doing in this last few minutes. I was trying to help them understand that when they worked in the here-and-now, the group became more exciting; more energy was involved in that. It’s always true of a here-and-now segment of a group. That’s the time the group begins to be alive. So, I wanted them to be clear about that so they would know themselves. And they’ll be able to see in the future meetings, when the group is flagging, it’s because they’ve moved far away from discussing this important direction between the two. Now let’s go on to the next vignette. This is a ah, a vignette that takes place fairly soon after the beginning of the third meeting. There’s one note of explanation I should make here and that the group that we’re watching, I’m videotaping the group so that my students can see it. I, I often do this in my, in my own practice uhm, and the ah, the students watch that tape, the patients have all given permission to that. I have also told the patients that ah, the tape doesn’t leave my hand and no one but my students actually ah, watched the tape. Ah, and in fact, if one of them should by chance know socially one of the patients, then the, the instructions are that the student should not watch the tape any longer but, but leave the room. So that’s what I’ve told the, the members of, of this group. In talking about the tape, I am not speaking of this simulated tape that’s being used for commercial teaching purposes. So, I need to distinguish between those two. So, with that ah, caveat let’s go ahead and take a look at the next vignette, third meeting.

Bob There’s something I’d like to bring up in this group today. Uhm, I realize it’s only our, our third meeting, but there’s, there’s something that are missing ah, about the group and how a group works with leadership. Now, what I have been accustomed to is you have your leader or foreman and they in turn give instructions to the group members and they work that out, you know. Ah, it doesn’t seem to apply to this situation right now. Uhm, what exactly is the leader’s situation in this group? I, I, I, I’m not getting what, what I need to get from how it works. I’m just at a loss for this. I don’t know what anyone else feels, but that’s, that’s how I feel. I’m just not getting a lot from the leaders.

Irv Yalom Other feelings about this?

Cathy It’s like, how can the blind lead the blind. I, I mean, shouldn’t the leaders be doing the leading instead of the group members helping each other out?

Betty I was wondering what the basic theory is that you use. You know, is it Freudian or what is it?

Bob Perhaps, we could get some information, some brochures, printed material that we could study before the next meeting and maybe that would help us.

Betty Yeah, right. (crosstalk)

Dan Yeah, that would be very helpful. (crosstalk)

Bob See what’s expected of us. (crosstalk)

Dan Yeah, yeah.

Betty Some books to read or something. That would be wonderful. (crosstalk)

Bob Yeah, something.

Darlene I mean, like, are there some things that we’re not supposed to say or ways that we’re supposed to say things?

Irv Yalom Ah, you know, I’ve been listening to what’s being said here and I, I feel a little bit in a dilemma. You know, on the one hand, ah, you know, Joan and I could talk some more about, about theory of group therapy. Ah, but on the other hand, I’ve also got a very strong feeling about some things going on in the group today ah, as also last week, too, which is that I, I’ve seen several of you glancing at our friend the ah, the TV camera up there. Ah, and even though Joan and I talked to you in a lot of detail about the camera before you started the group, I, I have a feeling that there is a lot of concern about it right now. I wonder if we could talk about that a little bit more.

Darlene Well, I noticed it moving last week right off the bat and I think it’s really distracting. It’s, it’s keeping me from really concentrating on this group therapy, really.

Joan Are there any other group members who heard the camera and were disturbed by it?

Alice I did.

Betty Well, yeah, I did too, definitely.

Allen Yeah, I heard it.

Irv Yalom Yeah, you know I think it’s really important that we talk about it. Ah, it’s something that’s sort of been underground that I think you all been feeling but haven’t talked about it. And, and it also raises the whole issue of what the rules are in this group, you know? Ah, is there a rule about talking about things about ah, about Joan and me that might not, that might not please you entirely? Ah, so, I think it’s worth spending a little bit of time talking about your feelings about the camera, and the videotaping in general.

Darlene I thought that you were gonna fix it. You know, I assumed that you heard that and that you were gonna fix it.

Irv Yalom You just assumed that I, I had heard it and would fix it from.

Alice Well, I was afraid of mentioning about the distraction because, well, I was afraid that the leaders, especially you, Irv uhm, was gonna get mad at me for bringing it up or may not like me anymore.

Dan I, I didn’t want to mention it because ah, it would seem like an indiscretion ah, and because it’s, it’s your tape and ah, it’s for your purposes, for your used in front of your students and I, if I, I didn’t, didn’t want to be too critical about it because I, I didn’t wanna embarrass you on your tape.

Irv Yalom So, is it somewhat similar to what Alice is feeling? That somehow I would disapprove of you?

Dan Uhm, no, it wasn’t, you know, similar, I didn’t wanna, wanna ah, ruin your tape ah, put you on the spot. (crosstalk)

Irv Yalom But, but it means you, you gotta sort of squelch your feelings here for my sake.

Dan Oh, I don’t think so.

Cathy I think there are more important things to talk about here. Ah, I don’t drive an hour to get here to sit here and talk about the tape.

Allen You know, Darlene, I didn’t hear the tape move ah, and if I did, I wouldn’t have any trouble saying it. You know, this is my time, our time, not theirs, and must I remind you there is a fee for this?

Alice It’s just that the camera just really bothers me. It brings up my performance anxiety. I just freeze up, you know, I’m it’s hard for me to talk. It’s just I feel like everything I say is, is gonna be considered unimportant by everybody else.

Betty Uh hmm. I feel the same way that Alice does. I mean, I’m always so worried about what I say and how I say it, you know. And, you know, how people are gonna react to me or what are they gonna think of me. And it’s one thing to talk to people, you know, here in the room, but then to know that that camera is picking up everything I’m saying, you know, and it’s down there for, forever, you know, it, it just unnerves me.

Bob Well, ah, I have absolutely no concerns about the camera being there. When we walked into this, we walked into this with open eyes. We had a very clear form to sign. We all agreed to it. I mean, that was the time to object if we were going to object.

Dan Uhm, well, you see uhm, Irv and Joan did explain it to me before we came in here and we signed the paper and all that. Uhm, but right, right away I saw it was, it’s an excellent tool for teaching and is really, I mean, that’s the best way to learn is from watching more experienced people at work. That’s the way they did in dental school. It works, it works great. And I don’t see where I, there’s anything I would, wouldn’t say because of the camera. I don’t have anything that I would hide because of the camera uhm, uhm, and if it’s ah, if it’s a benefit to somebody, to, to your students, then it’s a plus. That’s, that’s the way I see it.

Betty You know, I know that, that Irv and Joan did talk to us about it and explained it all to us in the beginning. But I’m still worried about the confidentiality of it. I mean, I know some people who work over at the hospital. I mean, are they gonna be able to watch this and see all of us on it?

Darlene I really, I hardly even remember signing that form. I, I thought it was just gonna be the first session, and then all of a sudden. (crosstalk)

Irv Yalom You thought, you thought we’d just tape the first session and not the others?

Darlene Yeah. Then I also have this fantasy that people are sitting around at home watching channel nine, eating their bologna sandwiches and having a real good laugh.

Bob [laughing] Oh yes, right. That’s uhm, I can see the sitcom now: Tune in for another episode of “The Loonies.” [laughing]

Cathy I feel like we’re wasting time.

Irv Yalom Well, you know, in a sense, I think the discussion, though, is, is important. One thing that’s really clear is that, in a sense all of us are being faced with the same situation with the camera, and there lots and lots and lots of different reactions to the camera. Uhm, and I think those are worth, you know, trying to understand and looking into.

Joan Some of us feel that Irv and I are, are aware of the sound and should fix it. Some are afraid of getting upset with this or angry, making us angry. And ah, some of us don’t really have any feelings about the situation.

Irv Yalom Some of us are, are afraid that somehow we would mock you or betray you or turn the tape over to others for sitcoms or, or whatever. And, and you know, I think, though the feelings that you have in here towards us or towards the camera, I think probably are pre-reflective of the kind of feelings you may experience with other people outside the group ah, maybe especially towards, towards people in authority. So, I, I think it’s, this is, these are worth keeping in mind, worth our investigating as we go along. But I think the sheer issue of confidentiality is just so important, we ought to just spent a couple of minutes in it ’cause I don’t think we can do anything in this group, any good work, as, as long as we don’t feeling safe here. As long as we’re feeling what we say here is gonna be leaking out all over the place. Ah, so let’s just sort of go over that again. You know, uhm, we talked a lot about that when, when we first came in. It’s terribly important that people are feel safe here. That what goes on in this room stays in this room. Some of you may feel you need to talk about your experience to some other best friend ah, but if so, then it’s important just to talk about your experience, not anyone else’s experience, and never, never, never talk about anyone’s name or identifying ah, material. Uhm, as for the, the videotape, let me kinda go over what, what my agreement with you was, that the videotape is sheerly used for teaching. Ah, it’s also available for you if you wanna come two hours early. We have the room. It’s open. You can watch the videotape before each meeting, of the last week’s meeting. Ah, it will be seen by no one else except my students, Joan’s students, who are learning how to do group therapy. It is the only way that people can learn, I think, how to do group therapy. It’s the way that we learned how to do it. Uhm, it will never leave my hand. Ah, uhm, it will only be shown to students who are ah, in training to be therapist. So, any, any feelings about what I just said?

Alice I just want to clarify something that I said about performance anxiety. It’s not just because of the camera. It’s just, just having to do something in front of people in general.

Irv Yalom Yeah, I remember a few minutes ago you were saying, and I guess Betty was also saying, you, you kinda felt that what you had to say ah, wasn’t gonna be deemed important by others, or gonna be laughed at by others. Uhm, that sounds really important. And what, you know, one of the good things about a group is that ah, any kind of information you wanna know about how people are gonna regard you is available right here if we just, you know, get the data, we just look at it. Are you all ah, you know, you all willing to work on that here in the group?

Alice What do you mean?

Betty How are we gonna do that?

Joan Well, for example, look around the room. Ah, whose comments do you think are important and how are yours unimportant?

Alice Well, I’m not sure, but I think Cathy, she makes important statements. You know, she, people listen to her. You know, she, she says what she thinks. She just commands attention.

Irv Yalom You, you like that in Cathy?

Alice Yeah, I, I do. I’d, I have a lot of respect for her. I, I wish, I wish I was more like her.

Irv Yalom How does that make you feel?

Cathy It makes me feel delighted. It’s been a long time since anyone ever said that to me.

Joan Alice, what about the judges in the room? Whose ridicule do you fear? Now, where is it most likely to come from?

Alice Well, I think there several judges here of: Darlene, Dan, who’d never admit it, and Bob. Especially Bob.

Betty That fits for me, too.

Cathy What fits for you?

Betty Well, those whose ridicule I fear, you know. I mean, I’m, I’m constantly worried that whatever I say, Bob is gonna ridicule.

Bob I can’t believe this. Why me? I have not said one critical thing in this group. In fact, I’ve been ah, I’ve been pretty quiet here. I’ve been ah, well, getting the feel, getting the feel of, the lay of the land, so to speak.

Darlene Yeah, but Bob, when you sit back and are quiet like that, you’re not taking part in the group. You know, it’s a way that you have of trying to get power over us.

Dan Yeah, yeah you have, I, I never mean to be critical, but you have got a pretty co, co, commanding glower.

Bob No, that isn’t true. Ah, I’ve, I am here with the rest of you. Uhm, I think I’m in the same boat as, as everyone else’s here. Ah, I don’t, I don’t feel that. Just, I don’t.

Irv Yalom How are you feeling about the feedback that you’re getting from Cathy?

Bob Uhm, well, well, ah, this judging, I, I would like, I would like an example. Can you give me an example, Alice or, or Betty with what, what kind of judgments have I made?

Alice It’s not anything that you said. It’s just, just something about you.

Joan Say more about what you pick up, Alice.

Alice Well.

Betty Well, it’s not really what Bob says.

Irv Yalom Could, could you talk, talk to Bob?

Betty Oh, I’m sorry. Bob, it’s not, it’s not really what you say. It, it’s what you don’t say. You know, it’s your whole attitude. I don’t really think that you care even a little bit about what Alice says or what I say, you know, and, and you never give a supportive or a, you know, comforting statement to, to anyone.

Cathy You know, I was thinking about Darlene last week and about the crisis around the separation from her husband . Darlene was really in bad shape. Darlene, I hope you don’t mind if I use you as an example. [laughing] But Bob, I don’t think you felt anything for Darlene.

Bob Oh, that’s not true at all. No, I, I believe I, I ah, felt exactly what everyone else here felt. I uhm, I, I’ve, I think that he was a lout and ah, mistreated her. Uhm, you know, I’ve, I’ve gone through this too recently, and I know what it feels like to go home to an empty apartment, feeling empty like that. I, I know those feelings. Uhm, I had the same feelings that everyone else has. So why repeat it? You see what I’m saying? It’s like, if, if we were all to have something to say and it took 100 seconds, not, 200 seconds each, to say it, and everyone took that time to say it, then that’s eight, eight times 200-seconds, and it just leaves, leaves you with very little real time to deal with the problems at hand.